Re: tips & tricks

Lawson G. Stone ( (no email) )
Thu, 06 Mar 1997 10:20:07 -0500

Reed Kotler Consulting wrote:
>
> At 10:39 PM 3/5/97 -0800, you wrote:
> >Stephen wrote:
> >
> >>I have enjoyed this recent thread immensely. thanks for all the
> >>confessions. but richard: I still don't really understand your visualize
> >>a melodic minor scale and find the tritone/inverted triad that make up a
> >>viocing of some kind or other... would you clarify, please?
> >
> >I'll try, but check out Mark Levine's books too.
> >
> >The diminished whole-tone (or "altered" scale) is the seventh mode of the
> >melodic minor, and can be used with altered dominant chords.
> >You could argue that it's easier to think of it as the first four notes
> >of a diminished scale, followed by the last 4 of the whole tone scale.
> >Example: B altered is B C D D#/Eb F G A B (seventh mode of C melodic
> >minor). It has a b9, #9, #11 and b13 (or b9, #9, b5 and #5). Everything
> >possible is altered.
> >
> >The Lydian dominant scale is the fourth mode of the melodic minor, and
> >can be used with dominant #11 chords.
> >Example: F Lydian dominant is F G A B C D Eb F (fourth mode of C melodic
> >minor)
> >The B is the #11.
> >
> Richard,
>
> I recommend Mark Levines jazz books to people. I think there is
> alot of valuable information in them that basically doesnt not exist
> in any other books. I also studied with Mark for a while and learned alot
> of things from him.
>
> However....
>
> IMHO, alt scales and diminished scales are a total dead end for
> improvising.
>
Hear Hear! Especially for guitarists. How many hundreds of boxes,
parallelograms, triangles, etc, can one remember? The problem with
visual approaches is that music is not SEEN. Music is heard. The more I
worked on these visual tricks, the more my playing became mechanical. At
some point, we need to decide how to reduce all this to a common
collection of "shapes" and then get on with the music.

> I'm almost totally against seeing improvisation as moving from
> one chord scale to another. I don't see any of the players
> I'm interested in paying attention to things in that way. The
> people I listen to are more interested in simplifying the piece
> into larger groups of measures that are essentially in one key.
> That's how people play those long horn lines that everybody
> wishes they could play.
>
I agree here as well. I think people make a big mistake here. Maybe they
do transcribe a solo and, upon analysis, discover a line whose notes
actually do fit arguably into this or that scale. That does not mean,
however, that the player thought that way. Nor does it mean that if I
think that way, I'll sound like that player. That player probably had
good basic music theory, but as Bert says, music rules 1-2 :it has to
sound good. The player probably played a melodic idea that they
concieved of first as a sound.

As an academician myself in a realm that is both science and art
(interpreting religious texts historically and literarily, for religous
purposes) I can tell you that the "rules" of good interpretation are
second-order reflection on work that was initially done intuitively. The
rules only define "what happened" not what has to happen.

I'll give my definition of good music theory here. Any theory, in any
realm, is simply a mental model that does a few important things. First,
it explains why things that work, work. Second, it explains why things
that don't work, didn't work. Third, it allows you to predict what might
or might not work, thus suggesting fruitful initial avenues of inquiry,
though not exhaustively; Fourth, a good theory allows you to expand your
learning consistently and effectively without collapsing under the
stress of new things.

The "scales over chords" approach, combined with the visualized "scale
boxes" just about destroyed my playing. It didn't really explain the
sound I heard in others, it didn't help me get that sound, and I kept
running into great playing that just didn't need it. Bad theory. Some
good information is housed in that theory, just like a lot of
astronomical and geological data was housed in the Ptolemaic theory of
the universe, which was advocated passionate by many intelligent and
learned people. But it was wrong. Copernicus was right.

I'm beginning to make progress because I'm transcribing solos very
precisely, studying how they work, and trying to play melodically by
composing solos over the changes of tunes I've transcribed. I'm like a
kid learning to write by connecting the dots. Funny, but my solos sound
better. Still awful. But better. And I have hope. This is fun again.

SNIP

> What I advise is that people transcribe the solos of people that
> they are interested in and figure out what those players are doing.
> Using that information you have a better idea of which approaches
> will lead to the kind of playing you are interested in.
>
> Getting that information from a book is a bad idea.
>
BTW I have hundreds of dollars worth of books I'll sell to anybody who
doesn't want to take Reed's advice here! Such a deal have I got for you.
Then I can buy more CDs, pay a graduate student to grade my papers and
do research for me, so I get more time to transcribe & play!

Heck, I'll even sell the commercial transcriptions. I've bought books of
these things, but I've seen that the value of a transcription is for the
transcriber.

> Reading books of others helps you to understand ways to think about
> music and formulate things but it's not a substitute for you own
> personal exploration.
>
And if it prevents one's own experimentation and direct encounter with
the music, the best book is still a bad thing! The enemy of the best, is
the good.

-- 
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Lawson G. Stone-Asbury Theological Seminary-Wilmore, KY
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Prediction is very difficult, especially of the future.
--Niels Bohr